From President-Elect Obama's very own change.gov website:
"Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year."
If a community service requirement is not what they meant, I'd really like to get an explanation. You see, we have something called the 13th amendment which prohibits this sort of thing:
"Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction."
Does anyone else see a problem here?
If you know me, you'll know that I am not a fan of President, George W. Bush. But this is one area that he actually understood. I refer you to the following link: http://www.presidentialserviceawards.gov/tg/pvsainfo/dspAboutAwards.cfm. You see, "voluntary" is a key part of community service. Americans give more of their time in voluntary service than any other people on earth. Why all of a sudden is this type of service required?
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Completion of 36 hours of community service was a High School graduation requirement for everyone that went to school in P.G. County when I graduated, and I'm pretty sure it still is. Maybe you should let them know how unconstitutional their requirement is.
Sam, your high school was not forced to place that requirement on you by the federal government. I think there's a big difference there.
First of all community service has been required in both public and private schools for years. Obama is not the first to bring up the idea that it is beneficial for students to learn from and help the community around them. Community service is a valuable part of the younger generation’s educational experience.
Second, to suggest that required community service falls under the 13th amendment is offensive. The 13th amendment was passed to put an end to slavery, which is arguably the most inhumane and horrifying part of US history. The brutal and animalistic treatment of Blacks throughout US history is a stain on this country, to compare this to aiding ones community (required or not) is insulting.
wouldn't a draft be deemed unconstitutional as well then?
AJ, I did not mean to offend you - sincere apologies. I certainly understand the magnitude and importance of the 13th amendment. The language does state that their is no room for involuntary servitude in the U.S. So my intent was to base my argument in law. But I'm not a lawyer... when I read it, the funny feeling I got in my gut was about freedom.
The fact that community service has been required in schools for a while now misses my point. My point is that the federal government, using its power to require one's time, seems to me to be a reduction in one's liberty.
One of the greatest things (as I see it) about community service is the voluntary aspect of it. If it becomes something I'm forced to do, isn't it more like a tax? The altruistic aspect of it seems diminished.
"the dude", regarding your comment on the draft, I think it was repealed back in the 1970's. I believe we have an all volunteer Army now based on this argument (I'm not a lawyer nor an expert on this topic... if someone knows, maybe they can chime in).
The purpose of community service requirements in school is not solely to help the community; it is also to teach the upcoming generation about their community, and about altruism. If Obama was proposing a US citizen mandatory community service then I may be inclined to agree with your assertion that it impedes on our freedom. However requiring students to engage in and aid their community hopes to teach them the benefits, both external and internal, of contributing time to help their community.
Additionally, involuntary servitude is defined by the DOJ as, “Summary: Section 1584 of Title 18 makes it unlawful to hold a person in a condition of slavery, that is, a condition of compulsory service or labor against his/her will. A Section 1584 conviction requires that the victim be held against his/her will by actual force, threats of force, or threats of legal coercion. Section 1584 also prohibits compelling a person to work against his/her will by creating a "climate of fear" through the use of force, the threat of force, or the threat of legal coercion.” A key word here I think is “hold/ held”, these students are not being held against their will and made to do community service. A community service requirement is more akin to an additional class for school, than being held against one’s will and forced to perform community service.
AJ, on your statement that, "I may be inclined to agree with your assertion that it impedes on our freedom"... gave over. Any more government imposed action that impedes on my freedom, your freedom, or that of any other American is not part of what I'd like to call America. Freedom has been under assault lately - death by 1000 tiny cuts!
Thanks for the DOJ definition of involuntary servitude. This is the wonderful thing about logical debate... we can all learn something. So on this point, being held against ones will does not require physical force, but can be done so by, "threats of force, or threats of legal coercion" (For high school and college community service activities, I'd suspect that the students get some sort of class credit. For Boy scouts, they get a merit badge or something). If someone were to refuse to participate in the next administration's community service programs, what would be the government's recourse? If there exists a threat of legal consequence, then I'd argue that this definition applies (although its sort of a stretch, but not much).
So back to my original question, what is meant by "requirement"? And what are the consequences of not fulfilling this requirement? Can't we promote altruism and charity without mandates?
Fred, what if schools require community service and give class credit as a result. Does that sound better? Many youth never get to experience the "real" world, I think this is a good opportunity for them to do that and also helping people at the same time. Another thing I want to ask is, do you prefer your teenage daughter hang out in the mall with her friends or she is working and giving back to the soceity?
Yasaiki, please, please! You're going to have my wife asking me questions! I do NOT have a teenage daughter! I guess you're thinking 15 years down the road, when my daughter is old enough to hang out at the mall:) So now that I've saved my marriage, let me address your query.
I have no problem with community service. It's a great thing, but a requirement? Fact is, most schools already require community service - the one's that don't certainly don't need the federal government to "help" them.
Parenting is for parents! Parents do a better job at it than schools, the Y, the Girl Scouts, summer jobs, etc. Parenting involves PARENTS identifying things for their kids to do - NOT the government. This is the difference in a self sufficient ideology and one in which we expect The Man to do things for us.
The government cannot and will not solve our problems. To expect Obama or your local mayor to instill a sense of altruism in your kids misses the mark!
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